They invited us to Miami to stay there in the middle of our pain. devil, making my brothers feel guilty about their faults every time I could. I was an idealistic person. wrong of statistics in the ICOC and the useless and damaging way that we had to
Smoke is seen in Khartoum, Sudan, Wednesday, April 19, 2023. That was disgusting. the only one not speaking in tongues, come up here and let us pray for you so
Gossip was the first thing in our mouth. being critics, we couldnt talk with them. break someone. times, almost no double-dating going on, lots of independence. But they didnt listen to him. Bible and knew that was wrong. a different person inside. that time and it took time to recover. ignorant to occupy that position. the church because they were not committed enough. Its hard to accept that
Some reasonable reasons might include: change of priorities, too expensive of a hobby to keep up, not interested any more. I have to say that Jaime De Anda, elder of our World Sector helped me
mistake! disciplers, Bible Talk leaders, zone leaders and everyone else that we wanted
I was so stupid, arrogant and prideful. International Churches of Christ Leadership, Facing war, death, turmoil and explosions with faith Jessy Tohme, Pop Star, Entrepreneur and Minister: Christian Ray & Deb Flores, Asanda Njobeni Marine biologist, hiker, and disciple of Jesus. with peoples lives. meetings. LA is giving me a new start. as if everyone knew that I was struggling. quickly for Chip and me. then we went out every other week until he finally asked me to be his
baptisms, filling the statistics forms, executing the plans from above. At
And I followed all the directions she gave me, or any other leader
All rights reserved. I
Im so thankful to
at that time, I was very hard on them. I really did not want to go to her bridal shower, seeing as I really
took me seven months to get baptized. themselves. My answer was
But, at the last moment, Chip changed his mind and
And I looked around in the leadership and I couldnt find anyone with real
was in the ministry since I was 23. The ICOC holds that the Bible teaches the existence of a single universal church. not click. potential to date another member because he/she was not good for the
Bible, one that encourages you to love God and one that has members who are
However, in order to be let back in, I had
In L.A, they didn't want another division
They were
you could go). went to the most expensive restaurant in the city. Victor Gonzalez, Jr: Why I Left the ICC! What is the International Church of Christ (ICOC), and what do they believe? One time I shouted at my secretary and I threw away
I was the teacher of all that crap. Our sector did
Just wait. I believed that. 300. push people to put first the ICOC. following the Los Angeles Church, the Super Church that all of us
people when the last time they had sex was, and we were asking these kinds of
was the conclusion Kip taught every time that I listened to him in every
But I finally felt as if things were looking up. doctrine from his very first message. up the phone. Disciples Today serves many parts of the ICOC family of churches - here are some of the highlights from 2022. . ICOC and Los Angeles church was applying those statistics and we started to do
We had a great time getting to know each other. John Reus took my place in the leadership in Argentina. When I
ICOC. One time I had an
Further, the ICOC teaches that the only "valid" baptism is one performed by the ICOC. didnt know that I was advancing a cult. I have struggled with the culture but I am Sumary: Why I Left the Church I Grew Up In This post has been a long-time coming. but they dont know anything about REAL ministry. wanted that. Chip continued to go to the church until October. Our week was full of activities. letter gave me a lot of reasons to leave because it validated a lot of my
Asanda Njobeni is a marine biologist, hiker, and a disciple of Jesus. I mentioned to the staff and they didnt like that I
Satan is big madBut God is good and He will get the glory. Asanda Njobeni - Marine biologist, hiker, and disciple of Jesus. ICOC, you had to choose between the university or the ministry. I have talked with some of them, they told me that they felt so bad at
evangelist measured all our lives with the statistics. Disciple=Christian=Saved. I didnt want to believe that it all was a
of information to ask every member. dont love God simply because I wont do what she tells me to!
That is the best
those staying in Seattle. excited! I have a job, thank God, but I don't know how to do anything else!! I know that my leaders above me were making US $7,000 to $10,000 a month
We told people what to do, when to do it
And, honestly, I've debated with myself extensively . In the middle of 2001, when I started to realize all the false teachings
encounter with an ex-member that the staff marked. We were paid Health Insurance. They
because of that. there were some needs in other ministries that we could fill. It
Now,
But he stayed
After that, if he found that you werent a good
and after him, Peter Garcia. We did
John Porter,
I did not agree with
I expressed to her that I was missing my family,
give thanks to Andrew Giambarba for correcting other mistakes in my writing and
2003 by Rachel Lindsey. I
I was mad, but there was nothing I could do about it. The reaction has been a mix of shock and, in some circles, celebration. But he insulted me about losing my
I was an emotional wreck! well or something that we needed to do, like evangelism (I dont consider
They must resign and stop
I do love God. Up to this point, the only direction we had received was to pray about
again (Kips letters) Revolution through Restoration 1 and 2, and the
Talk about frustrating! At that time, I felt good about what I was doing. It was so bad. Christian Ray and Deb Flores share their stories of finding Christ and finding each other, and how they use their talents to serve others through @ATXTribe @ascendmissionfund @thirddrive4377. I went to church with my
The lead evangelist was Phil Lamb
One of my friends in the ICOC who left
On February 10, 1993, Marty Fuqua & Preston Shepherd came to speak
Really makes you feel like they are being
Church autonomy. And I
If someone is not discipled by other disciple,
against my brothers and sisters in other churches. internet. Chuku Modu exited The Good Doctor after portraying surgical . Brazil, our church above us in Argentina. we met with him/her. One of my first d-times with Erica, we walked around the neighborhood
I saw the church like an army. Thats the way
Why I left the ICOC and then came back - Pat Hlophe ICOC Disciples Today 6.21K subscribers Subscribe 1.6K views 1 year ago #Christian #churchofchrist #ICOC Pat grew up in South Africa and has. It
it got around that Chip and I liked each other.. whether that is good or
last year, then you are a bad leader or you are a lost member. The next night at Wednesday evening, the
my mother-in-law one day about why I left the ICOC and she said something that
A person in Mexico could live for one month with the
cults. happened with the ICOC. orders. and deep preparation. Dont forget to like, share, \u0026 subscribe Stay tuned for A story time NEXT : Sunday about the ICOC follow me on my Socials: Abernathy._Mrs zaria Tashae Abernathy DONT FORGET TO TURN ON YOUR S I was a big
That
with us. going to disciple and changed it to someone else right in front of
I destroyed so many lives. Aires, Argentina. rules. I was a missionary to Chile in 1990. I might be pressured into moving out of the place I stay in and it's hard to find a new place in my city. But I
That week I invited people to church. But those who left to instead go to the mainline, each one of them became even harder to talk to and many of them decided they didn't want to be my friend at all, only until they left for earlier Restorationist roots. Why I Left by Gustavo Sassano, formerly the ICOC's top leader in Argentina "I know that it is difficult to realize what I was, a cult leader. I began to suffer when I saw them - a guilty feeling. Holidays are also difficult for us as both of Chips sisters
Asanda Njobeni is a marine biologist, hiker, and a disciple of Jesus. without any knowledge about the ministry. They
disciple? I always had a Saturday night date all the
It was October 1991. guy, Kip, wasnt who all the leaders were saying he was. date who they really wanted. Home Page |
This kind of teaching was so common in
This a list of things that I began to not believe anymore at that time
Im so sorry about that. And, as it
people to bring to church on Sunday, plus a lot of studies with non-members. I'm terrified of having to learn to live in a world among people I thought I would never live with and that I was always told is evil. We collected
I was paying $US 700 at that time for my apartment and that
All Rights Reserved | InternationalChurch of Christ. "I initially left my teaching position to become a stay . Sometimes I just wished that I had never joined. I know him, very well, and I know
I never pursued my plan to become a lawyer
But it is a
In the
they didnt come up with the money to give. the staff. I apologized to him for this and many things that I committed
They said to me that they didnt want to be
before joining the ICOC. us to pray about it, and God would make it obvious. But in my heart, my doubts started to grow. one. all the things she had in her hands. I began to hate the special contribution too. We were leaders without grace, leaders with hard
I
divorce him). He can do what he wants with his half, but I
True Church) doctrine and many other things, such as the pressure to give
God, but didnt know what to do. made some mistakes and going on with the ICOC.. members about these episodes. I had to marry her in
And the ICC changed things
Next week Marty and Preston came back, this time with Al Baird. They
and now I was feeling that pressure. They wanted to protect their jobs. I received a
We stayed for about 45-50 minutes. After I got fired, I began to open my heart. that the ICOC was a cult. GSL (Geographic Sector Leader) in our world sector, took me out of leadership. The last thing that gave me the strength to leave was that I saw my best
At least then I knew that I could be discipled by my
Here in Argentina every staff leader is sending their children to private
As you likely have heard by now, Carlson left the Fox News Channel on Monday. The lead evangelist was paying more than $US 2000 and in Argentina that
was the day that Heather and I had planned 2 weeks before to go looking for my
changes to the church. Nobody had a private life, nobody. even if I did go look for a wedding dress (there are plenty of other days
I was like a general, all the time giving
Then he said, If you look around and see youre
I talked with many leaders
in order to love God according to them (like daily quiet times, inviting
people were afraid to talk with me because of my bad temper. me. have to be fruitful by bringing people to church, was applied in a wrong way. just sit there and take it from her. husband that the next Sunday. know, and that makes me feel bad. Talk about being shocked! giving sermons, without preparation. She had a very
The first message Rob preached I remember not wanting to talk with
leadership. hatred. Email REVEAL |
attending the ICOC and look for different jobs. But, as all good things must come to an end in the ICC, I was
because he quit. All church leaders wanted to keep their leaders in their area of
thing that has happened in my life. But I dont
tired of this behavior in the upper leadership. have talked with many ex-members in Argentina and other places and the pain
The problem is that the one guiding you may have problems of their own. me that the reason was that my zone, the marrieds, was not baptizing enough
past, I was a coward and I was trying to keep my job. He said that all was my fault. As you read this, please know that Im not doing this out of bitterness or
seek and to serve God, but these are not excuses to make so many mistakes and
It was common practice in the
OK. All that matters is
I began to listen to all leaders in the ICOC, in a different way, and I
is a lot of money. on my 2nd date with Chip, not one other brother asked me out on a
If we did, we would fall away up in Seattle. rather the church, right? I started to understand why people were feeling bad about
seemed as if we couldnt talk or associate with anyone who wasnt
That was so bad, and I received a lot
It was an awful time. receiving the same that I gave to others. again. I really didnt want to move, but you cant tell the
stayed at Lisas house. confess their sins. The authority for discipling comes from Matthew 28, to go and make disciples of all nations. And when they achieved goals in Brazil, we did the same
I did however meet
We went to all the services, and we even discipled an older couple after a
leading a church (in Portland). Didnt want to, but knew I had to. But the real reason was that I told the lead evangelist Martin Bentley
15th, I was baptized into the Seattle Church of Christ. I hurt many. bit scared. the best of it and make her my new best friend. feeling going back to where it all started. children were scary. big, big mistake. and talked and prayed. spirituality that we had seen, such as short or almost non-existent quiet
I deserve their
friend quickly. I hurt many. They will never learn. house with Nancy, Charon and Michelle. We, in the staff, talked a lot about who should
months, every Sunday, for 2-3 hours. Many in the Argentina church followed him in that idea. was going to be a sharing blitz. Why I left the ICOC and then came back - Pat Hlophe. They
It just hit me years after leaving the ICOC.. Because of this, I
When I did finally go to that Bible Talk (only took 6 weeks), I was
Its difficult
But in my heart, I was a coward. zone and ended up leading a Bible talk together. Since then most members in the ICOC of
Although it was hard, I did it. everyone! I will never forget that day. in the ICOC. I always had a hard time teaching kids church because I did not have any
very well how bad many in the staff felt about taking so many numbers. for the first few weeks. ICOC Disciples Today May 23, 2021. true church. I didnt want to. saved in Argentina. She was the zone leader and ended up discipling me
horrible pride and the truth. The idea was that you had a mature christian over you guiding you. I wanted to innovate and change, but not to
preaching, teaching and attending conferences. He quit his job, and he was a Geographic
I have had many bad days when
Many people started to
It was quite disappointing. Boy was that a
bad, bad way. Warring factions trying to seize control of the east African nation of Sudan . Since there was
began to realize that John 15, a scripture that the ICOC used to teach that we
But
that I had betrayed my best friends in the ICOC (I will explain that better
I tried to kick them out of
I decided to
We were immediately separated into 3 different groups LA, SF and
We called any criticism in the internet "spiritual pornography." Sibusiso Mauze - Architect, father, and disciple of Jesus. in the ICOC are in denial. But how can she? the only visitor, so they decided just to do a study with me the
places and situations. families. One time, a friend of mine who
anyone but her, I told our zone leaders. God desires all of us come to know Him for who He truly is. at 11am, just in case our sector made it that far (as the game was supposed to
both had kids. maybe out of wanting to be friends with Lorna. It was not common to talk about Jesus. many of them are still members, and I dont agree with how the elders and
Are there legitimate reasons why someone might choose to quit being part of a club e.g., a book club, a stamp collecting club, etc.? I
The ICoC is about people controlling other people, twisting God's word to keep their members in control. Then over the next 6 weeks, we began spending more
who don't want to talk with me anymore. I love them and miss
assigned a wedding date the date for us was May 7th. First off, I knew who it wouldnt be since my husband was not asked
But my mother was not persecuting me. The criticism was
At that time if you wanted to grow spiritually (It
I let them know about my prior
It was one of the worst things that happened to
In this video he shares about his career, how hiking helped him heal after the death of his first wife, how he strives to live intentionally for God and teaches his children to do the same. (By the way the Bentleys have never apologized to us for
Everyone around me behaved in the same way. In March 1999 I went to Brazil with my wife and my two daughters for six
my family that wed be back soon. Only one day for the family! They told me
week. change the world, and I thought I had found that possibility through Jesus. We have talked with
teacher in the faith), plus daily evangelism and everyday contact
of the disciples left so they could go to the game. church. prefer to sell food in the street rather than to preach the OTC again. leaders were earning a lot of money and all of us were living in nice houses or
after a while, people began to get tired. I shouted at them. I was
Since there was no way out, I accepted my fate and moved into the new
Not only
because he didnt believe in the One True Church (OTC) doctrine anymore. Complaints about weight. We rented a U-haul, gave notice on our apartment, asked a
He told me that we were a company instead of a
dont. There was silence on the other end. part of your group. They considered her and many ex-members
All rights reserved. rent. Many didnt believe that we were the only true
People in my church were tired of
Why I left the International church of Christ and then came back - Ryan Hoke ICOC Disciples Today 6.19K subscribers Subscribe 148 7.5K views 2 years ago #churchofchrist #ICOC. I told the lead evangelist
The ICOC was founded in Boston by Kip McKean. I loved my roommates, Lisa and Sali. gave me. that you had to do it wasnt a good way to make my attitude positive. real knowledge. All you can do is find a church that follows the
long. finally got through to me after all this time. years, it tripled in size. Discussion Forum for your hard fight. I went to Mexico in 1992 to live there. Argentina. wedding dress. And I followed. Why I left the ICOC and then came back - Ryan Hoke. We just thought,
Lifestyle of the leadership. (hierarchical system) you were not a Christian and you were not
only six months and then Martin and Carmen Bentley came to lead Argentina in
The ICOC believes that anyone who is not baptized is not saved and must be "evangelized" and brought into the church. It
believe that anymore. Many left the ICOC thinking that they were going to hell. to have an afternoon wedding like around 2pm. almost 300 in 1999. It was weird at how fast things changed. ICOC, I love them and Im trying to understand their decision to stay
I did realize fairly quickly after leaving that the Campbell Stone parts of that denomination didn't resonate with me so I had no interest in going over there, but many of my friends were surprised it wasn't necessarily just the ICOC revisions that bothered me but the very roots the icoc came out of. My wife and I cried
as it would be impossible to be married to a disciple and know that he would
For the first 2 weeks I was in LA, I
Get our Question of the Week delivered right to your inbox! And in moving zones, you get a new discipler and new roommates. I was like the
reservations, and I am going to be completely open with Erica. I could fall for him. My name is Gustavo Sassano, from Buenos Aires, Argentina. Dont settle for Philosophies, and a persons lack of faith, allowing that to define how you see God. 15 years in the ICOC, 14 in the ministry, and they treated me like a demon. We had been completely open about
I
thought. left the ICOC through the years show me that I was in a dangerous system. They told
I decided to stay. How wrong I was. close to my parents. him and criticized him a lot. I left the ICOC over 7 years ago, and have just recently felt as though I can have a relationship with God. It was a long process. Its difficult to listen to so many
Florida Church helped us a lot, and Im thankful with a lot of people
informal time at his house. month, and then, as the ICC does, I was hit with another bombshell. I'm a student who grew up in the church and was baptized as a teenager. I listened to hundred
for those moving to LA. Instead of that, they persecuted
team arrived to Chile, the lead evangelist, Andrew Giambarba had to return to
It's his decision,
I
Why I left the International Church of Christ and then came back - Ryan Hoke. Every staff meeting, the lead evangelist made us feel
More insights from your Bible study - Get Started with Logos Bible Software for Free! my zone of the church and I did everything possible to change and to have
I remember
Active Participants: In 2001, the ICOC claimed 188,000 people in weekly worship attendance in 407 churches in 171 countries worldwide. During the
One time, while I was single, my mom got
She shares the powerful story of her life and the challenges shes faced while growing up and raising a family in Lebanon, along with the incredible opportunities God has blessed her with. time they could. College, Lorna invited me to a Bible Talk. campus brothers asked me out. judgmental about their lives. Those times were so
But one day I couldn't
One implication of this doctrine is that, while Christians may separate themselves into different, disunified churches (as opposed to just geographically separated congregations), it is not actually biblically right to do so. next week, as the leaders decided where everyone was going to go, we were told
church, being a leader, or inviting people to your church. I really clicked with Lisa. sitting there listening to other leaders preach the same every time. Two months came and we
He tried to change my mind, not to leave,
was innocent at that time. I saw many of these episodes of shouting, striking things in many
Only my mother came to my wedding. Kingdom of God = The church. twin of Chuck Norris), pulled our zone together to say a prayer for Chip and
World Headquarters: International Churches of Christ, 3530 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 1750, Los Angeles, CA 90010, (213) 385-5434, Web site: www.icoc.org. there that I was totally committed to repentance. once again. to helping at the reception. helped out tremendously throughout my engagement from stuffing envelopes
contribution money to pay for these expensive dinners. I was convinced that we weren't the only church and that there were a
But since I was engaged, I had to move zones
I called the World Sector Leader, Peter Garcia. and she was having a hard time knowing what to do (he was getting drunk and had
I learned how to control every person's life. Why
I entered in the ministry only five months after my
I have to say thanks to Nicole of the
when I got fired. that this is what I should do, she responded, If you just do it, your
meeting for all members in the church in Buenos Aires. During those more relaxed meetings, the men smoked cigars, drank
My
unfit-for-rank-and-file-members-jokes. A major red flag went up in my
in the ICOC had to follow and obey. I hope this is not true. There is of course wild speculation as to why Fox's biggest star left the network. talking with Chip for a little bit, I finally sat down with Lorna and one other
In addition to the breaking sessions, we would have more casual staff
They cant stop running the ICOC. In John 15, Jesus was talking about the fruits of the Spirit, love, joy,
lead evangelist, married to Elena McKean's sister, told me about Kip: He
In this video he shares about his career, how hiking helped him heal after the death of his first wife, how he strives to live intentionally for God and teaches his children to do the same. Then I got a call from my discipler. He chose his marriage and left the church. We played
then you dont love God. I said, fine, I guess I
It was so common to hear
believe that the ICOC was a cult, but I had so many proofs of it. talked with the leadership about the mistakes and sins of the ICOC, they always
Thats when I knew that
way! When I got fired, Martin Bentley told me that the church would not to
If you dont do it
One Sunday morning, the minister encouraged everyone to start
from within those groups. surprising to hear Reeses response: we, the ones from Seattle, had it
I didnt listen to him. friend Andrew Giambarba fighting the upper leadership to get things right in
Now, I fight with my guilt every day. many times. We controlled every area of their lives. ex-members, including me, can measure. It is recruiting). We were both in the singles
way? As my
I spent a lot of time
My best friend and former GSL Andrew Giambarba and his
However, I started having a hard time with the church. Awful! I wanted to
Anyway, I ended up doing it for a week and then not showing up for the next
My discipler finished out the month for me. continued to be our friends even after we left. It was an extreme experience. enemies. I started to hate statistics. I prayed constantly that if Chip and I were to
almost 13 years, from March 1989 to November 2001. lots of ups and downs in my life, marriage and love for God. keep growing the cult. We used to do that a lot. wasnt going to give my half to that church! Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, D-N.Y., was thrilled with the Fox move and posted a video saying that . speaking in tongues. The control of outside information. they see Chip and myself as leaving God and bound for hell. There I
He wanted all members to
So, quit complaining and do what the
Ryan Hoke tells his story of joining and leaving the International Churches of Christ, and then coming back. I didnt finish at the university because at that time in the
Reem El - Khoury. Many people were thrown away. I started to lead the ICOC in Argentina. She thought that I was completely
people. It was very
did I hurt so many lives? Stay away from them! I cant accept it. There
One of them had a horrible time with here ex-husband, and her
me anymore. But its better
in many places. I experienced a spiritual teardown that ended up setting the foundation for my faith. and have just recently felt as though I can have a relationship with God.
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